Whee, the day for linking complex discussions.

[jebbypal]

So sixersfan linked to this article that lady_shain had originally started discussing. Since I didn't want to post replies to two places, here I am now.

First off, I couldn't even force myself to read all of Michael Noer's ten reasons. I don't care that they are backed up by research etc. It's all a bunch of BS. Pure and simple. What all this boils down to with careers and marriage is a) the examples of marriage you've seen in your life, b) your own priorities of what is important in life, and c) common courtesy to your partner.

Now then, I really hope this doesn't sound like I'm bashing anyone. I'm not, that's just how I see this issue.

I will state flat out that I've probably been raised by what is apparently the wierdest thing in America. Hell, we could probably have been a sitcom family to an extent. My parents always had an incredibly equal marriage despite the fact that my mother wasn't necessary what you'd call a career woman. Granted, when we were kids, she didn't work, she took care of us, she cleaned house, etc etc etc. But I can state equivocally that my father didn't ignore her for us either. He did the best he could to give all of us attention even though he was working 18+hr days to get overtime to pay the mortgage and my brother and I's medical bills. However, when I was 10 or so, she went back to work one day a week, no big deal. When i was 14, she went back to work full time as a pay roll secretary who also did payroll taxes. Let me tell you, that takes a lot of overtime too. My dad took up the slack -- he cooked, he did laundry (with the aid of handy dandy written instructions), and to my knowledge, he never complained much. My brother and I pitched in too. It was probably the biggest adjustment for the two of us. But it did do one thing for me. I will under no circumstances even consider dating a man who can't do his own laundry or cook or clean. Period. Failure on any one of those is a deal breaker. I won't be anyone's mom. (Of course, this makes it funny that B can sew and I can't, but hey, tomboy here).

Next comes priorities in life. This is a bit in response to sixerfan's statement that he's a workplace tyrant. That's fine, he's entitled. But if two career people decide to marry and have kids and continue after their careers full tilt, they better have talked about their personal order of priorities. if they don't, this is where a problem will occur. My mom and dad actually clashed on this a lot. If you ask my dad to name his top five priorities, he'll tell you straight up: 1) his word, 2) providing for his family, 3) family. I won't go into the details of the clashes, but what I learned from it is that both people in the relationship need to come to an understanding of the other's priorities and how those translate into how they live their life. You can say that you understand what is important to you're partner, but alot of times you might understand the words but not get the meaning.

Common courtesy also dictates that you work together as a team and respect each other. If you lack common courtesy, none of the rest of it matters. Then you'll be one of those people who has an affair or nags regardless of whether you have a career or not.

Nothing in that list applies to a career woman specifically. Rather, everything in that list that Noer wrote boils down to an expectation of the woman to set her own goals aside for her husband or family's happiness. Personally, I'd never get married to someone who expected that, nor would I marry someone willing to set their goals aside for me. Rather, we'd find the best way to accomplish it for both of us.

then again, I know I grew up seeing something truly rare and I'm thankful every day for the parents I had.

Comments

[lady-shain.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's it; exactly.

Again, it's not so much the 'facts' stated in the article, it's the presentation. Not hey, if you want to have a marriage that works then watch out for these pitfalls, but career women make lousy wives. Sure they do, if by 'lousy wife' you mean 'not your 50's driven, Beaver Cleaver concept of the 'little woman'.

[sixersfan.livejournal.com]

I agree with 95% of what you said. In response to me being a workplace tyrant, I meant if I was a boss. For myself, I work hard while I'm there, but when I leave, I'm gone. If I was a boss, I'd probably be less likely to hire someone with kids and/or a spouse or domestic partner because I'd want a worker whose entire life was working for me. I believe family is ultra-important, so I wouldn't want to keep a worker away from his/her family for long hours.

But I agree with everything else you said.